Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

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Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby cannon pinion » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:13 am

Among the junk in the first "box lot" of watch parts I bought was this beat up Record movement.
r1.JPG
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It was missing the winding gears and stem then, but kept perfect time when wound with a screwdriver on the barrel screw.
I made sporadic efforts over the last 3 years to get it back together.
In the fullness of time, I got a parts movement that had the missing gears but no stem.I disassembled and cleaned the original movement and got the keyless work back together, but couldnt wind it. I kept looking for the stem, which I finally found at Jules Borel. Now the watch wound, set and kept excellent time.
I had this nice looking case
cs.JPG
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from a dead Swiss movement and it seemed the Record fit just about right.
rcb.JPG
rcf.JPG
But when I tightened the case screws, the balance stopped moving.
It hangs up on the case side, unless the screws are tightened very slowly and precisely. I had to really fiddle with it, and the screws are not fully tightened. It's running now,and keeping time, but I'm not satisfied.
I would feel better if I could tighten those screws right up. Should I get the inside of the case cut out a little to allow more clearance for the balance? A couple of mm ought to do it. Or is there another way to approach it?
I've got a new dial for the movement, and will get some hands, and a new crystal, so it ought to make a decent looking timepiece.
I should mention that I tried to case this by loosening the hold down screw, pulling the stem out, and putting the movement in the case and then replacing the stem. This process knocked the winding pinion out of the movement,
wg.JPG
and I had to take the dial off and weasel it back into place. Once I got the stem back in and secure, I took off the crown and fed the threaded end of the stem up through the pendant, and then tightened the case screws and put the crown on. That worked OK.
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby Marty101 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:09 am

Hey Andy. If anything I'd alter the case,and probably just in the area of the balance wheel. I have to say that is one unusual looking case;like snake skin!
Keep winding things,
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby cannon pinion » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:17 pm

I can't sort this out. The watch runs slow in the case, dead on out of it. I took a more careful look, and the balance is not touching the side of the case as I had thought.
What happens is this: when I tighten the upper case screw past a certain point, the balance slows and stops. When I loosen it a little, the balance starts up again. The tightness of the lower case screw doesnt alter the functioning- it can be as tight as possible.
I thought maybe it was not enuf endshake on the balance staff, but if I push down on the balance cock, there is no change in balance speed. I've tried it dial on and off in the case - same result. I've put gentle pressure on the bridge near each wheel - no change.
Something is hanging up when the movement is compressed into the case, even tho the fit is good.
Any suggestions?
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby richiec » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:24 pm

Does tightening the screws somehow warp the plate as if the case is not true? Does the mainspring barrel contact the case at all?
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby cannon pinion » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:46 am

Could be either of your suggestions, Richie. I had to make a click spring for the mainspring because the original went south when I took off the ratchet wheel. The spring I made is just a trifle too tall, even after I filed it down.
clk.JPG
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It winds smooth enough but I wonder if the barrel is rubbing against the dust cover. I'll try some grease on the top of the ratchet wheel and see if it smears the cover when closed.
The warping of the plate is harder to figure out. I don't have an alternate case that fits this movement, so I can't test that idea except by maybe a small shim between the case and the movement near the upper case screw? I do have a parts movement with a good balance and train. I'm going to try casing that one to see if I can get any difference in the clearances.
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby Marty101 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:32 pm

Andy if the barrel was rubbing on the dust cover you'd know if you left it open,right?
What happens if you tighten the upper case screw and loosen the lower? You checked for hairspring or balance wheel touching? Sorry if my suggestions are obvious! I'm not much use here,but I really dig these diagnostic mysteries.
Keep winding things,
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby cannon pinion » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:19 pm

Yes.You are right, Marty. As I woke up this morning, I realized it couldnt be the barrel hitting the dust cover, because it does it with the dust cover open.
I see clearance for both the hairspring and the balance.
Tightening the upper screw and loosening the lower has no effect - the balance still stops.
I will try some more observations with the parts movement in the case. It's complete except for winding gear and ratchet spring.
I think whatever is stopping the balance can't be good for the movement , so I don't want to subject it to repeated trials.
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby cannon pinion » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:04 am

After another observation with the junk movement cased, I saw what I thought was the problem. The edge of a timing screw catches the bottom lip of the case during one part of the arc. Loosening the case screws lets the balance drop enough so the screw misses the lip.
I marked the part of the lip and cut it out with a case scraper and some files. Very nice. When I put the movement back in, the balance swung, until I tightened the case screws completely. Then it slowed and stopped.
I now notice that the back of the movement is not flush with the back of the case, but slightly above it. Even if I cut the whole lip away in the balance area, it won't allow the movement to sit right in the case. It would sit high, and not tight and be prone to pivoting on it's axis.
I need a very thin spacer ring on the dial side of the movement to hold it away from the back of the case. Then the balance won't hit and the case screws will tighten up without pulling the movement above the back lip of the case.
I would welcome suggestions on how to make it. All that comes to mind is filing down a 16s dust ring to about 1/10th it's height and I'm not sure I have the patience.
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby Marty101 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:18 am

Andy,you can file down and use the hub of a minute hand. Or hour if need be.
Keep winding things,
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby cannon pinion » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:11 pm

FINISHED - new case, new face, new crystal and running dead on Semi-Retired Hippy Time. (Losing 30 seconds a day.)
7r.JPG
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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby Glyn Meredith » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:41 pm

Another job finished. Well done! Thank you for sharing your work, Andrew.
Posted on GH recently? Your posts keep us going.

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Re: Record Calibre 33L Finished - Sort of

New postby veritas » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:06 pm

Nice job , 30 seconds is not bad, a good looking watch.
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