Wadsworth serial number dates

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Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby bobby369 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:56 am

Is there any data base with the serial numbers and dates made for these wadsworth cases?
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Re: wadsworth serial number dates

New postby MartyW » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:13 am

As far as I know there are no databases or records for any watch case companies, none at all.
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby Jdzwatches » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:51 am

Guy's I know that there's a fairly good one for the Hamilton factory case model 2 and maybe all Hamilton factory cases made by Wadsworth. A member from this message board that sells on the bay sometimes lists a link to it at the end of his listings if he's selling a watch with a wadsworth case.

I had it saved on another tablet before it died and now I don't have it on my new tablet, I will email the member and if it doesn't break any rules maybe he can post that here.
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby Marty101 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:24 am

That's the 1st I've heard of any case records-excellent JD,Good Luck!
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby bobby369 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:01 pm

OK thanks guys -I should have been a little more specific-I have a Bunn Special made in 1927 and was wondering if the Bunn Special case (Wadsworth) was of the same vintage-but I guess the answers would have been the same thanks again BOB
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby richiec » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:54 pm

A picture of the case will usually allow dating within about 10 years of so depending on design, inscriptions, pendant length, crown design etc.
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby Tom Huber » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:11 pm

What we need are pix and the SN of both the case and movement. Terry Hall maintains a data base on these and he should be able to give you the info you want.

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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby terry hall » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:38 am

There are no "official" factory case records... but some have researched enough and obtained observations to make a really good guess on some factory cased examples...

Mike Chamelin is one and covers the subject in his book on 16s Bunn Special Watches.
You may see a 'list' somewhere on the web that was "derived" from his work....
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby pinwheel21 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:43 am

Guys, Terry Hall and I started breaking the code on Illinois and Hamilton watches that used Wadsworth cases back in the mid 1990's. Today, Terry probably has a database of Hamilton watches with Wadsworth cases that exceeds some 2 thousand entries.........I have a database on Illinois Bunn Specials with Wadsworth cases that has over 600 entries also a database on Sangamo Specials with Wadsworth cases in gold filled and solid gold as well as 181 Model Bunn Special cases and one on Keystone cases. You can see a couple of these lists in the new Bunn Special book that has been out since last November. This is a 366 page book that took over 5 years to write, with over 10 thousand hours of research from a lifetime of study and will take your understanding of 16 size Illinois Bunn Specials to the next level. All color , 1st edition and is already over half sold out and there will be no more once these are gone. Any one wishing a copy should call me at (336) 996-4288 and leave a message and I will be happy to help you purchase a copy before they all are gone. You do not want to miss this book as there are some 52 Variants of this popular collectible and this book has become in just the past 8 months, the definitive guide to 16 size Bunn Specials..over 300 color photos of the movements, dials, cases, boxes, ledgers, serial number runs.....etc. .it has way too much information to even begin to discuss...do yourself a favor and get this book before they are all gone.. ..you will never regret owning this informative publication......sorry for the shameless self promotion but as Will Rodgers once said, "It ain't bragging If it's the truth!"......all the best, Michael chamelin.
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby Neilywatch » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:34 pm

I am interested in knowing how you determined the originality of these cases? I am sure you can tell which case was sold with what movement, but there is always the possibility of switching? What's the trick here? :)
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby pinwheel21 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:58 am

Well, the best way I can say it is that it only took about 25 years of recording the movement serial numbers and case serial number of thousands of watches that had a Wadsworth case , from every and any watch company I could find . These ranged from presentation watches with box and papers to trashed examples from all over the USA and this is how the database evolved. Logically after a "career" of almost 3 decades at something one begins to build enough information to break the code and determine from the thousands of numbers and dozens of different markings, fonts, components, etc. how to "date" year by year when a case was made by a manufacturer. Wadsworth used logical chronological serial numbers, Keystone did not.......and I also looked at every available Wadsworth case made from 1900 to 1953 from all watch companies and not just Bunn Special cases to validate my research. Hope this helps you understand it was a long slow process and labor of love for the benefit of the research. All the best.
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby terry hall » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:08 pm

The Illinois are much more difficult... just note Mike's comments above...

For Hamilton, there has been a "control group' which consists of Factory Cased/Boxed/Labeled examples.... they HELP! Illinois Rarely listed the case numbers on their boxes....

Another point... Once you see the raw data and can 'look' at it... things have a 'flow'... it makes 'obvious' deviations stand out like a sore thumb.....

Now... the watch breakers are messing with 'stuff' selling off components... whole nudder subject there....

Can say though... the 950B is probably one of the most switched about combinations there is......... 'everyone' has to 'upgrade' to line their pockets.... I would venture to say the Ball Watches are next in line ....
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby Neilywatch » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:23 am

Very interesting guys - Terry have you noticed if the switching reduced the collectability of these specific grades you mention? I do know from another site that it was agreed that Howards are by far the most switched US brand, and this has hurt their collectability, since everybody who knows is turned off from these watches - with the end result being that they are bringing much less money than they should, for what they are.
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Re: Wadsworth serial number dates

New postby Stephan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:14 am

I agree that switching is a problem but I also think that a lot of watches were used for the purpose for which they were bought and likely the original case wore out.
From your data can you tell if a non original case dates from say 20 years after the original one and may still be original to the watch even if it might be its second case.

Hope that makes sense.
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